Since there were so many disparaging and negative comments being hurled my direction over at Dawn’s blog, I popped in and left what I hope to be my final comment on her site. (I’m not linking to it here, you can easily find her site by doing a search, or going a few posts back.) I’m posting my response here, so that you don’t feel compelled to click over to figure out what’s going on.
Here is my comment in its entirety:
// begin comment
First, let me say that I have only returned here due to the multitude of people calling me out by name.
Second, I wasn’t trying to start shit. I don’t need the “traffic boost” as it has been posited. I was merely expressing my opinion on my own site about the use of the term “gay” to mean “lame.” I didn’t call Dawn out. I didn’t refer to her by name (as I have done in other posts with patently homophobic materials posted). In fact, I noted that I didn’t believe the author was homophobic. Dawn “outed” herself as the author I referenced.
The attitudes in her comments were perplexing. She expressed complete astonishment that I could be offended by the use of the word to describe an inanimate object. As though describing the object made the word somehow magically clean and pristine and not at all related to homosexuals. Just where do you think the usage “evolved” from? Someone who was intentionally being offensive to homosexuals, that’s who. Continuing to use the word in that matter is perpetuating that intent.
Then Dawn posted another story in which she worries that a man singing a girl’s song would turn her band into the “gayest band ever” (how is that not related to homosexuals?) and how she did not want to be associated with a “GAY BAND” and that it would make them a bunch of “FAG HAGS” [Dawn's emphasis]. This is a point that nearly all of the commenters here have forgotten or chosen to overlook. There is NO question that these comments are offensive AND homophobic.
If you think that an atmosphere where “gay” is used to mean “lame” isn’t hurtful or doesn’t lead to more anti-gay sentiment, just look at some of the comments left here. I have been called “fucking queer” (which Dawn found funny). I have been called thin skinned. I’ve read references to “homos” and “lesbos.” That’s really inclusive and welcoming.
I want to address a few of the major points that Dawn and other commenters have made:
Kimi quoted some BBC report stating that “gay need not be offensive to homosexuals.” So if I’m understanding this point, the BBC is the authority for dictating how I (and other homosexuals) am supposed to feel about the use of “gay” in a disparaging manner? They certainly didn’t consult me on this. I don’t know of anyone who WAS consulted.
Later, Dawn stated that she shouldn’t be held responsible for using “a phrase I didn’t invent.” So by this reasoning, Dawn should be able to use the words, “nigger,” “kike,” “wetback,” “spic,” “faggot,” “dyke,” “chink,” “jap,” “wop,” and “retard” with impunity? I’m certain she didn’t invent those words either, but they are on some magic list of words that a civilized community has determined are offensive and taboo. How did those words get on that list? They got there because the respective disparaged groups stood up and said, “Stop it.” And civilized thinking people understood the harm those words were doing and agreed to stop using them.
Dawn also said, “I bet if I said keytars were ‘retarded’ instead of ‘gay’, he wouldn’t have two posts dedicated to me because using the word ‘retard’ isn’t one of his ‘buttons’.” Whether or not “retard” is one of my buttons (guess what, I have developmentally challenged people in my family) is a moot point. Had someone mentioned that they found your use of “retard” offensive, I would completely agree with them. It is offensive, for mostly the SAME REASONS I find “gay” = “lame” offensive.
In that same response block, she said, “maybe Jester should write a letter to Matt Damon too and bash him on his blog…LOL.” If I considered Matt Damon an “internet friend” as I considered Dawn to be prior to the last couple of days, I would immediately let him know that I was offended. I wasn’t SINGLING you out UNTIL your second post which, I’ve already explained, WAS patently bigoted.
The vast majority of the rest of the comments here are along the lines of “fuck him if he can’t take a joke” and “over-react much?” My original post was not an over-reaction… it was simply a post examining the use of the word and my determination that its usage EVEN IN THAT CONTEXT is offensive to me. I was offended that someone who I genuinely liked and respected could be so arrogant and self-righteous in her response to my offense.
I have never asked for an apology. I don’t care about an apology… but the fact that there is a complete REFUSAL to acknowledge that the word is offensive and an insistence that because “everyone else uses it” makes it all right is stunningly ridiculous and arrogant.
Ask yourselves if your opinions would change if you were the victim of oppression and discrimination and hatred and violence simply because of a characteristic you can’t change. You’re lying to yourself if you think they wouldn’t.
// end comment
Don’t think that I’m saying this is the end all, be all of the discussion. The debate and open discussion that has taken place here has brought me a lot of enjoyment over the past couple of days. It has lead to a lot of conversations with people away from my blog.
Social issues and etymology and frank discussions about human behavior are all very fascinating to me.
Watching people show their arrogant self-righteous bigotry and then deny that they are bigoted in a public forum: priceless.
Diamondfistwerny: I just checked that thread at Dawn’s place – and you’re right! He did blame the Jews for it! Ha! And I thought I was being sarcastic when I said I waiting for him to blame them!
That fella’s clearly got a major problem with Jews…
Diamondfistwerny – Yeah, that’s what I was thinking… it wasn’t here.
Cheezy – Sounds like a nifty discussion to share on that thread.
HYey, Diamondfistwerny?
Be pissed off about it. I love pissing off Landsmen.
Oy gevalt. What a schmuck.
I’ve not had the time to read much, but I do know that he had the decency to write and apologize to me for the things said at that other site.
Just use caution. That’s all I’m saying. He apologizes a lot. Also, the list of people who are “out to get him” was pretty long when he was sending it to me, and now it’s one person longer.
By the way, the real reason I came back to this thread was to tell you that your subscriptions plugin isn’t working. I tried to manage my subscriptions and I got You may not access this page without a valid key.
Branden Sez: “Um………………………………… I am so confused…is anybody else confused about that post?”
S’ok…it was aimed at PC rainbow people, not ‘tards. When I need you to “get” one, I’ll use smaller words.
Jester Sez: “He’s an equal opportunity offender. I mean on his home page, there are clear neo-nazi symbols, homophobic terms, and references to Chinese people as both “Chinks” and “slants.” Oh yeah… with a link to my favorite website included.”
Which neo-Nazi symbols? Nazis are socialist scumbags, but ya’ gotta give ‘em an A+ for organization. But I got no neo-Nazi stuff, except for the occasional post on Kennedys and Pelosi, et al, who are OLD school “subordinate the individual to the State” Nazis. If THAT’S what you’re on about, I gotta say I’m pretty surprised to discover that you’re so right-wing.
Oh, who knows, you’re such a silly little swish, there’s no telling which graphic got your leather ball-strap in a knot. Part of your charm, innit?
At any rate, I appreciate y’all coming over to be offended — what with y’all banging my “visit” stats harder than a choirboy at the Vatican, my numbers are looking pretty good already this month. Us stat whores get it where we can.
– AD -
“He apologizes a lot.”
Yeah. Acknowledging when you’ve hurt someone’s feelings is really a character defect.
Like I said, the sun rises anmd sets on some people’s perfection, doesn’t it?
And weren’t you the one who went off half-cocked on a post I did and ended up apologizing to me because you were to stupid to understand it?
I thought that was you.
Not to mention the fact that you;’re over here intentionally stirring up shit that didn’t concern you for no other reason than to be a mean-spirited cunt.
And don’t worry, there will be no apology forthcoming simply for making a factual observation.
You can go back to minding your own business now, Jenny. As I was mine.
Yeah. Acknowledging when you’ve hurt someone’s feelings is really a character defect.
It is when you apologize for the exact same offense repeatedly and then continue the offense. Because then the apology becomes worthless blather.
And weren’t you the one who went off half-cocked on a post I did and ended up apologizing to me because you were to stupid to understand it?
I thought that was you.
There you go making up facts again. I apologized sincerely to you because I had inadvertently inferred that you were a racist. Not because I was retracting my post. I did that publicly and honestly.
Stupid? Heh. So, what, then, do you call making up facts to try to garner attention and sympathy. That would, of course, be you’re area of expertise and I am genuinely curious. That truly you wound me. Maybe you should take jabs at my dead son (I don’t have a deceased mother as yet). I mean, if you really want to hurt me.
You’re right, Mark. No need wallowing. I would like to unsubscribe to these comments thought *Jester, ahem*
Fuck you, you whinging bitch.
Ah, now there’s the wit and intelligence I love about you. Boy, you’ve sure put me in my place, haven’t you?
“Fuck you, you whinging bitch.”
Ah, the wit and wisdom of Mark! Actually I think that one’s a small improvement on some of his other bon mots, whaddaya reckon?
CENSORED AGAIN! What are you, some kinda Nazi?!?! I’ll sue, by God! I’ll teach YOU to suppress my God-given rights to hold forth on issues!
– AD -
(Heh heh heh)
Mark, Jennyjinx, and Cheezy – It’s obvious that you folks have a history that extends beyond this site and this topic. While I’m sure the story is fascinating and would likely flip many of my triggers, I’ve sort of got my hands full with the whole gay = lame/use of offensive terms after you’re aware they’re offensive debate and would really like to keep the conversation civil and focused on that topic. Thank you!
“would really like to keep the conversation civil and focused”
Good luck with that.
Joe the Troll – Can’t hurt to try…
Asbestos Dust – I’m so glad we could expose that many more people to your rhetoric. I suspect you won’t find any new regular readers here, so I hope the ten second one shot at your stat counter is as satisfying as the ten second one shot at your wife.
Or am I giving you too much credit? Maybe I should edit that to say the ten second one shot at your right hand. Which ever… it’s a “Choose Your Own Adventure” insult…
Who invited that guy? Too much credit? No…I think he gets the point. I think that people of his intelligence not only get the point, but are wise enough to know that they are teaching words of hate and KNOW that they won’t get much credit no matter what they say, so they go on and on just trying to get the attention. Sorry Mark, that’s the last you’ll hear from me and many others. No attention here.
Look ^ I passed Liz and Mist….hehehe
Toby – You’re a bit confused, dear. Mark and Asbestos Dust are two different people. One is much more offensive than the other. And nice… moving up by leaps and bounds….
Yeah, whatever, they both sound like assholes.
Toby – My colors are Blush and Bashful… one is a much deeper shade than the other.
Jester Sez: “…so I hope the ten second one shot at your stat counter is as satisfying as the ten second one shot at your wife….”
OH! OWWWW! OWWWEEEE! Fuck me, can you sling an insult or what? DAAAAAAMN! I mean, zing, really. You’re a pro at this innit?
– AD -
(Bleedin’ Jeezus on a stick, is that REALLY the best you got? Sorry to bother you…I thought being a swish with yer delicate little feelers on your sleeve was your biggest problem….now you’re waggling your pitiful little windsock around all macho like that and it’s got me sorry for you and shit. Ewww. Now I feel dirty.)
Jester Also Sez: “Mark and Asbestos Dust are two different people. One is much more offensive than the other.”
Yeah. I keep telling that prick to tone it down, but some people….
– AD -
I’m not going to comment because this is a blogwar and blogwars give me hives. I just wanted to see my words in this cool little bubble thingie. I like the way the cool little bubble thingies change colors each time.
I’m writing again so I can see the color change.
See? It happened again! Wheeee!
pj made me giggle. it was the wheeeeeee that got me.
thanks
My most sincere apologies, Jester and everyone else.
And thanks for helping me our re: unsubscribing.:)
pj made me giggle. it was the wheeeeeee that got me.
Well, I’m glad I made you giggle! Making people giggle is what I do, after all. I suck at fighting — the last fight I got in was with a hamster, and he kicked my ass.
Here, something else that might bring out the giggler in you. And yet one more.
PJ – I’m so glad I could offer you some amusement for the day.
hello – Did you say wheeeeeeeee outloud when you typed that?
Jennyjinx – No worries.
Asbestos Dust – Definitely not the best I got, but I wanted to make sure I used little words that you could
comprehendunderstandread.one of these days in the not so distant future cheeks is gonna use a phrase i find offensive. i’m gonna bring her here and to dawn’s site and let her see for herself how a smallish thing, meaning something easily corrected, can become the elephant in the living room holding a grenade in her trunk. one of my best friends uses the c-word constantly. or rather she used to untill i told her that i really can’t stand that word. now, ~because we’re friends~ she refrains from using it around me. she has decided for herself to extend that courtesy to me. had she not, i would have had to make a decision about whether or not i valued our friendship enough to overlook something that really bugs the fuck out of me. i’m not saying that it’s on the same level as what you and dawn are dealing with but it sounds like a lot of spectators have only added fuel to a fire that could have been put out a long time ago in a much more quiet manner. sorry about the long ass post but this has got me thinking on a mommy level and i always get wordy then. i may post on this. do you have any objections or concerns if i do? let me know. i won’t post until i hear from you.
heather – Of course i have no objections or concerns about you posting more on this subject. Thank you for getting it, and understanding why it’s important to stop this negativity before it affects your child’s generation too.
Man, Jester! It’s been 2 weeks since the drama of Webmiztris. I’m still getting lambasted by the likes of Mark and his cronies. They search for ways to twist words (basically lying). Do these people not have anything better to do? How old are they, and are they blogging from jail or a nuthouse? And honestly, I’m beginning to think that many of them are all the same person. OYYYYYY!
diamondfistwerny – Oh.. you didn’t directly engage them did you? Don’t you know you should never look directly in their eyes, they see it as a sign of aggression and become territorial. Also, don’t show your teeth.
I was looking for Dawn’s site when I came across this discussion, and I have to say to Jester: I think you’re wasting a lot of time and energy by attacking her for her use of certain words and phrases. The reason I say this is because I don’t believe she is anywhere near the awful person you have made her out to be. I read her blog for years, and never construed anything she said as genuine malice toward anyone. I do understand why you’re upset, Jester, but aren’t you just a little too bent out of shape by this? I tried to read your entire response above, and not trying to be rude, but my eyes started to glaze by the fifth paragraph in. I have to agree with Dawn you are upset because she doesn’t react to your complaint the way you think she should, and because she won’t take on your cause. IMHO,I just think your time would be better spent focusing your abundant energy on this subject toward those who perpetrate real acts of evil and malice on minorities. Dawn isn’t a bloodless nazi, she’s just a smartass female with a blog. ;-> BTW, like it or not, she does have the absolute right to say anything she wants, just like the freedom you have exercised to speak so hatefully of her…freedom of speech is one right we all have.
Always Amazed-
Seriously? Seriously?……..seriously.
Seriously…..?
Dear Lee:
Unfortunately, I do not show my private parts over the computer. I really do have too much class for that. The pic (s) I will send will be sufficient to get the “Ladies” aroused…and who knows, there may be more “dripping” and “changing panties” as some of the women have said. Lee, I am all man my friend and am only attracted to beautiful, soft, feminine women. Jester, which leads me to the point when are the guys going to get their special day of seeing hot beauties? You have to be fair about this you know. Yes, I am The Thing, and as such, I want to see some female hotness.
The Doctor
Always Amazed – You must be great friends with Dawn if you are JUST seeing this post from a YEAR ago. Her blog has been gone almost an entire year. You also didn’t bother to read all of the posts. If you had spent even a moment rubbing your two brain cells together, you might have realized that there were three posts before this one that did a more than adequate job of exposing your friend as a malicious twat. I also notice your return email address is mz.annthrope@gmail.com. Any relation to the high priestess of the cunt coven?
Branden – I choked on my keytar when I read your comment.
The Doctor – Do you ever actually read the post or comments before you speak up? And why can’t you return to the post you’re referencing to comment?
Jester, I never said I was great friends with Dawn. What I said was I READ her blog for years, and I came across your site looking for her blog. I never specified a time frame for when I was reading her blog, nor does the absence of her site make your comments any less relevant to the point I was trying to make. I read enough of your posts to see you were frothing at the mouth about stupid shit, and I base my knowledge of Dawn on the conversations I had with her, not what anyone here has chosen to twist in order to justify their malicious behaviour. Also, nothing I said in my original post was meant as insult to you, I just wanted to say something on Dawn’s behalf because she was a very decent person when I knew her. The fact that you were unable to respond to my comment without being a immature jerk pretty much says everything about you one would need to know. It’s amusing to me you put my email address on here in attempt to annoy me – it doesn’t, and it’s nothing more than a junk account which already receives a ton of spam, so I doubt there is any harm which can be done there. At any rate, I have nothing more to say on this, nor any more time I would like to waste trying to communicate with a closed mind. Please, return as you were to your frothing and stroke level indignation.
Best you could change the post name title Jester Responds to Webmiztris | Jestertunes to more better for your content you make. I enjoyed the blog post withal.