For a very long time, people have used the word “bitch” to describe a woman, (or as a verb for a woman speaking.) It is a practice that teaches young girls that they are less than men. It is a completely demeaning, degrading, and insensitive term. People who are more evolved do not, (or at least try not to,) use the word “bitch,” because they know it is wrong, and never ok to do so. It is the same with the “n-word,” and it is the same with the term “so gay.” It is never ok to use these terms because they are oppressive terms that hurt young people and piss off older people. If you want to continue to mindlessly use these terms, then you go right ahead and be a fucking ignorant idiot. (I’m not nearly as nice as Paul.) Ignorance can sometimes be forgiven, but once you’ve been taught, if you continue to act ignorant, it is no longer forgivable!

You know, I didn’t really get it until your last post. I mean I agreed, just I didn’t feel it. Then I read “second class citizen” and it all came into focus.
I am a third generation citizen, my grandparents came her in the 1920’s and became citizens, my parents and I are natural born US citizens. I speak English and Spanish fluently, I am as AMERICAN as they come, I love apple pie, for crying out loud!
I wear the hippest fashions, I have KILLER shoes, I don’t have an accent, I don’t paint in my eyebrows and wear gansta brown lipstick nor do I wear panchos to the mercado. Yet people still call me a Mexican, and when they say it, they say it in such a way, like “sorry, you people are taking over our country and disgracing it sort of way”.
And I am sooo like you–I have a ton of beaner jokes, I can tell them and laugh with the best of them.
You know, I’ve finally come to terms with the fact that I can’t be white enough or the white people or brown enough for the brown.
So no, you are not overreacting, and I’m sorry I didn’t get it until now. But I get it and I’m with ya.

Jeesh, you weren’t overreacting, but maybe I was!

I like you both, so I’m staying out of this. I will say that I think you’re overreacting a little bit, and I think Dawn could have been a bit more diplomatic in her comment on here, because, in the end, she’s not a hater in any way, and you seem to be able to take things in context very well.

UMB - You’re right. You’re not as nice as I am.
Princess Victoria - It steams me that people are so bleeding ignorant. Stupid Americans who have no cultural identity are so threatened by anyone who does. What do we have? Turkey in November and fireworks in July. God forbid we embrace other cultures and learn something about the other 90% of the world. If I were laying on the couch and someone said, “Stop being so Mexican” it would be exactly the same… using a term that you use to self-identify to mean something derogatory and demeaning (in this case lazy or shiftless). You would be well within your rights to punch them in the crotch. You’re not overreacting. The real problem here is that no one else seems to react enough… they excuse it.

Avitable - Her comments here coupled with her latest post in which she is clearly using the term again (several times) to describe something she clearly has an intense hatred of leads me to the conclusion that my “lameness” is unwelcome. She is making the assumption that a guy who is singing a girl’s song must be GAY and that would make her a band of “FAG HAGS” none of which she finds pleasant. These comments are actually even more disparaging than the comments that started this whole mess. I’m not in anyway trying to lead a mass exodus from her site. I imagine I’m probably her only out gay reader (that I can tell, anyway) and I’m sure that my withdrawal of an endorsement won’t affect her negatively in any way.

Don’t think I’m going to be upset with you for continuing to read and interact with her.

It’s like Wal-Mart. I refuse to shop there but I’m not going to picket the store.

I’m confused now…is it or isn’t ok to use the term “butt-fucking pansy”?

othurme - It’s only ok to use it if you are referring to yourself. Otherwise, no.

Geez, my bad. You don’t have to be all british about it!

It works, right? British is going to catch on.

othurme - umm.. still going with the no.. that’s not going to catch on… I’d fully support a different word, though… miztris perhaps?

UMB Speaks! You don’t speak often but when you do you say some of the most intelligent things. You should speak up more.

Jester: you should design the Flaming Fuck You Award. So when you do hand it out people can place it on their blog like a badge to be proud of

Grr…. I will breath and let this go. I am just really taken by that kind of stupidity as in the “webmiztris is stupid” as in…….

-adjective-
1.lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.
2.characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless: a stupid question.
3.tediously dull, esp. due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless: a stupid party.
4.annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio.

*wink*

Daniel - Isn’t it amazing? UMB almost never reads my blog. I don’t know what prompted him to log in today… I hadn’t even mentioned all this to him. And I’ve considered making that badge… but I figure it won’t be truly appreciated.

Branden - I’m never going to dictionary.com again. I’ll just call you.:)

I did read your previous post and I didn’t comment because I wasn’t quite sure what to say. Firstly, I want to say that I completely agree with you.

But.

The problem is I have been guilty of using ‘that’s gay’ meaning ‘naff’ or ‘a bit lame’ or saying things like ‘don’t be such a hom’ if someone is being a scaredy-cat (I would also use ‘don’t be a girl’ - is this as bad? stupid things to say, sure, but not meant to be offensive to gays or girls).

My brother is gay and has had a really tough time over the years and I am generally completely intolerant of bigotry. I recently had to call a girlfriend on something bigoted that she said ‘as a joke’ because it offended me so much. I made the point to her that hearing such offensive comments (no matter how supposedly innocent they were - although I can’t see how it is meant any way other than offensive) was distressing to me on two levels. One - I am offended by the actually intolerance/hatred/disgust (whatever is conveyed by the comment). Two - I feel guilty that I don’t do something about it (i.e. tell the person not to say things like that). I feel I am letting my brother down everytime I hear a ‘fag’ comment.

So why do I think it is ok to use these childish phrases? Well, I suppose the answer is I now don’t. I am glad I read your post. It is something I have never felt comfortable hearing from others because it always made me wonder if they really thought being gay was synonomous with being crap/below standard/less than normal etc. Since I knew I didn’t feel this way, I always felt I had the right to say things. What I didn’t really appreciate is how by perpetuating a usage in that way, it made it OK and socially acceptable. Which makes me no better than those people that really mean it.

jester, do you have high blood pressure? just from reading some of the comments on these few posts my blood races. i can only imagine how you must feel. i’m not gay (meaning: homosexual), however i can appreciate that hearing something you use to identify who you are used to mean something negative would upset you. (i’m mostly irish and polish so you know i have heard my share of dumb polock jokes and drunk irish jokes…i have a sense of humor and can appreciate them. but if a “friend” would call someone a “polock” instead of a dumbass i would be offended and sure as hell would tell my friend that i was offended.)

as avi does, at first i thought you were overreacting, oh how i wanted you to be overreacting because i enjoyed reading dawn’s blog, but now after reading dawn’s posts on her site & her comments here i am convinced that you are not overreacting at all. in fact, more of us, gay or not, need to react. strongly. loudly.

please know that i will never be “politically correct”, however i will do my damnedest to avoid being truly rude and offensive.

thanks for opening up this can of worms.

On a post that is espousing the elimination of negative stereotypes, one should check their “hypocrite” coat at the door:

Quoted from Jester above:
“It steams me that people are so bleeding ignorant. Stupid Americans who have no cultural identity are so threatened by anyone who does. Turkey in November and fireworks in July. God forbid we embrace other cultures and learn something about the other 90% of the world.”

I guess all of us have our prejudges.

Jester, I don’t thing Dawn meant anything derogatory to gay people when she made that blog entry. Of course, you’re entitled to your opinion.

sigh.

I don’t think it’s over reacting at all. We live in a society where words are now weapons. When do we start to draw the line between what’s offensive and deemed funny. The racial slurs? the gay slurs? mental issues? I think anytime a reference implies in any way that lowers the significance or value of a person it’s a bad thing. It has become way to common to think it’s OK or even hip to use words that disrespect some person or class of people without any care or concern with the effect that has on our society. OK am off my soapbox for now.

i’m not getting kimi’s argument. it wasn’t said that ALL americans behave a certain way, just the stupid ones.

It was my interpretation of the the comment that all Americans are stupid, because the only cultural identity that we relate can with are fireworks on the 4th of July and turkey at Thanksgiving.

My point is, is that if your goal is to educate people on wrongs of a stereotype, to do that by insulting another group negates your argument.

Kimi, maybe all of us Americans are stupid, because that’s not the same thing at all. He’s not educating people on a stereotype - he’s saying that equating “gay” with “lame” is extremely negative reinforcement that should be prevented.

me thinks kimi misread jester’s statement. i didn’t see that ALL americans are stupid. only that stupid americans with no cultural identity are stupid enough to relate only to the 4th of july, etc.

honestly, no matter how many comments and clarifications are written, some people will apparently never see that words are powerful.

Kimi: I understand your point and in theory I tend to agree with you. Using stereotypes in a negative way when you are arguing against the same thing is a poor way to make an argument. I think there is a small difference though in Jesters argument. Since he is an American he is being critical of a group he belongs too. This is how growth happens.

Point taken…As mentioned earlier, I’m positive that Dawn meant no offense to any group when she made her post.

End of subject (at least for me), I’m a lurker, rarely a commenter. I’m moving on now…:)

I enjoy this blog and Dawn’s. (That’s my official disclosure statement)

1 - I think Jester had a valid point in, basically, pointing out that “hey, people get lazy with their language, and I know you didn’t mean it that way… but that’s offensive”.

2 - At least that’s how I took your post. But, in a different light and including the proceeding comments, it could definitely be interrupted that you are “overreacting” and saying that someone who uses the word “gay” to mean anything other than homosexual is a “gay basher”.

3 - I don’t think Dawn is a gay basher. I think it’s very clear that when she uses that word that is not at ALL what she means.

4 - That being said, sometimes what we mean needs to be set aside for a minute if someone says to us “this is how I take it” - and at least CONSIDER that position. I was really surprised, in all honesty, that Dawn dismissed the idea so quickly.

In conclusion, Jester’s being a big ol’ baby and Dawn’s being a big ol’ bitch. You both need to stop being retarded and kiss and make up.

And send me hate mail.

Kimi - I don’t she meant to offend anyone. The fact is that she did and doesn’t care. I think that’s more of the issue.

Kimi - You’re right. I’m prejudiced against “stupid Americans who have no cultural identity.”

Chuck - You are making my point for me, Chuck. If she meant nothing derogatory to gay people (which I assert in my original post) she should have chosen different language. How you can read her second post and not read it as offensive to gays is beyond me.

Gina - Do you need an aspirin? Really… it’s not any trouble at all… I’m getting some for myself anyway….

Eslocura - Welcome! Your soapbox is more than welcome here. Language is powerful and off the cuff comments can hurt more than intentional, well-planned diatribes.

hello - Right. It’s just a tactic that some debaters try to use to disarm a discussion… find evidence of hypocrisy.

Kimi - I wasn’t referring to all Americans. Clearly there are many many Americans who DO have a cultural identity who I was obviously not talking about. There are also many many Americans who don’t have a real cultural identity, but who are sensitive to, or otherwise embrace the identities of others…. I was also not talking about them… There are also smart and compassionate Americans with no cultural identity who know better than use hurtful language to disparage others, not talking about them either… leaving the Stupid Americans with no cultural identity…

Avitable - Your doctorate is well-earned.

hello - right.

Daniel - I may be wrong, but I’d like to think I don’t fall into the Stupid American with no cultural identity category…

Kimi - I’m glad you delurked. Believe it or not, dissenting opinions are welcome here.
Miss Britt - You always have the nicest summations. You are right in that my post was not calling Dawn out as a bigot. It was pointing out how the choice of words made her appear. It was only after her response and subsequent posts where it became more evident that though she says she doesn’t, she is in fact harboring prejudices against gay people. Her refusal to acknowledge that her language was offensive puts salt in the wound. I never asked for an apology. I don’t want an apology. I want others to understand the harm that their seemingly innocuous words can cause.

Othurme - right… her response was very nonchalant and ‘take-it-or-leave-it.’ Which is what I’ve done.

My point was not to say you were a dumb American, but to say as an American you have the duty to be critical of your own people. And while you might not be stupid and lacking culture, I was defending your right to make such statements.

This discussion could only be more interesting, if there were like five of these going on at the same time. Jester, call out five people on your blogroll for stupid stuff they’ve said. C’mon do it right now. This will be awesome.

Daniel - I’m just giving you shit.:) I know what you mean.

Sticks and stones brothers and sisters…sticks and stones. I’ve heard gays say worse things to and about each other.

Now let’s get back to curing cancer and fostering world peace.

I remember when GAY used to mean happy. Why is it that the Homosexuals get to usurp words and symbols and make them their own and when we use one that isn’t “correct” in their eyes, they get all pissy and try and make us feel like we’re lower class citizens?

I want the fucking rainbow back, I want gay to mean happy, not cock swallowing or rug munching, and I would like to see all of the Homos act more like my brother who is gay AND has a sense of humor about his preference for blowing guys instead of some sort of militant cock wrangler who feels that an all gay planet would be the greatest thing since water based lube.

Relax, have a cocktail, and shut the fuck up, you give me a headache.

Dude, get over it, ok? It’s a term. If she has said it was queer then I would have been on your side, but she said something that only a person of your “style” would taken the wrong way.

Beside, music is about making music, not money so don’t use that in your fight against W. Kind of makes you look gay, dude.

Othurme and Fish - I somehow managed to respond to your comments on the other post. Sorry about that.

Nightmare - Classy. Apparently this is what passes as one of Webmiztris’s “cronies.” She should be so proud.

MikeM - I’d love to hear your explanation how using “queer” negatively is any different than using “gay” negatively.

You got it all wrong Jester. I’m not one of W cronies. I’m a realest. I accept words have several meaning and I don’t have to call the PC police every time I don’t like they way people they use them.

I don’t call Jenny Crag and cry to her every time someone calls me fat. I don’t call the KKK every time an African American calls me a cracker and I certainly don’t call Dr Phil can cry when someone calls me gay.

Sexuality is something you need to keep to yourself anyway. I don’t care if you are gay, bi or straight. Keep it to yourself and the nay-sayers won’t have anything to say. You are giving people a reason do dislike you.
Be happy with it and move on. Don’t expect the world understand it. If you do, you will never be happy because you will always be fighting for something that is never going to change. At least in our lifetimes.

If you don’t like the term “gay” used in that way, then don’t use it. But don’t expect the world to conform to it.

As for people using words to describe something (like what W said). If you were comfortable with who you are, what other people say wouldn’t matter. You have to accept yourself before others will accept you.

No hard feelings J. Just being a realist.

I’ve known Dawn for a while and have many friends like her, straight and gay, and you wont believe the shit we spew about each other when we’re all together which we laugh off.

Yesterday we was poking fun at jesters!

Life is short, can’t we all just get along?

Jester: “It steams me that people are so bleeding ignorant. Stupid Americans who have no cultural identity are so threatened by anyone who does. Turkey in November and fireworks in July. God forbid we embrace other cultures and learn something about the other 90% of the world.”

Not all Americans are stupid, you know. There’s stupid people everywhere you go, the world is not immune.

It seems not everyone can read the whole discussion before speaking.

MikeM - My parents have seen IN THEIR LIFETIME the civil rights movement of the 60’s bust segregation. They have seen women’s liberation and radical changes in the way minorities are treated.

In my lifetime I have seen the “Russian Commies” become allies.

Don’t tell me that in my lifetime I will not see equality for gays. If I were the type to let people I like or respect continue to use offensive terms that oppress and belittle others, that might be true. But as long as I have the ability to speak up and join others who refuse to give up fighting we will see those changes sooner than you think.

I am completely comfortable with myself. What people say matters because there are others out there who are struggling with their own sexuality and who are raising kids who are struggling with their identities. And it is my responsibility as a comfortable gay man to do what I can to ease that journey.

Dear AL - The jokes you make in private are none of my concern. The words you use in public are.

Dear AL - Yeah. Umm.. keep reading. I’ve covered this already.

Othurme - Not only can they not read the whole discussion, they apparently also have a problem with comprehension.

J, the biggest mistake the gay movement ever made was comparing their struggle to the African America and Women’s equality movements. How dare you even suggest that your right to your own sexuality be compared to slavery, death and racism. Where you stick your member is something that should be kept behind closed doors, gay or otherwise. Skin color and gender are on the other side of the spectrum.

As for love, you can love who you want, but don’t compare the gay movement to something that is centered around race or equality in the workplace. Gay is not a choice on a job application, or loan application. Stop telling the world. The world doesn’t want to know your sexual preference.

And as for the terms used. The gay movement took the words gay and fag (Happy and cigarette). So if someone uses them to describe something that the word was made for and you don’t like it, it becomes your problem, not theirs.

It’s just a word. It only has meaning if you give it one.

kate1976 - I’m so sorry, I didn’t intentionally skip your comment! Yours was one of the first that I saw when I woke up yesterday, but somehow missed when answering. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

I think your brother is extremely lucky to have you. I completely understand feeling guilty about not doing something about the everyday intolerance we encounter. Where you feel you are letting your brother down, I feel I’m letting down my friends and myself and in some respects future generations of gay kids.

The important point that Dawn and her colorful supporters have been missing is one that you have nailed on the head: Even though YOU know you don’t feel that way, the people you are communicating that term to don’t necessarily know that. And to continue to use disparaging terms is to perpetuate the underlying negativity and make it socially acceptable.

Forgive me?

MikeM - How dare you suggest that centuries of derision, assassination, abuse, second-class citizenship, unequal protection under the law, and discrimination endured by homosexuals is not similar to the abuses committed against racial minorities? Skin color, gender, and YES EVEN SEXUALITY are genetically determined and put them right next to each other on the wheel of the universe.

Since when is race a “choice” anywhere?

“The world doesn’t want to know your sexual preference.” So, you’re saying that you have no problem with my being gay as long as I stay at the back of the bus, use a different water fountain, and keep my mouth shut like a good little fag? What kind of bullshit is that?

“It’s just a word. It only has meaning if you give it one.” So “nigger” or “kike” or “wetback” or “dyke” only has a meaning if I give it one?

In that case, “nigger” now means “beautiful flower,” “kike,” means the smell of fresh cut grass, “wetback” is a tasty piece of rock candy, and “dyke” now means “perfect sunset.”

Glad I could solve that problem.

I gotta say, I was wondering how long it would take for the truly ignorant to show up.

I’m pretty sure the truly Ignorant have been here long before this post.

J, I really feel bad for you. You are a sick, sick person who needs help. You have proven, like so many before you that homosexuality is a disease of the mind that needs to be treated like any other mental condition. You are reading from the Gay Book of Stupid Arguments, word for word, which means that they have successfully brain washed you into thinking you deserve special treatment because you are gay.

Hope all goes well for you, but I don’t think you will ever the world collectively supporting a mental condition. Black and female are not a choice. Gay is, and you can argue that it’s not, but that comes from the same book as every other argument gays use to support their condition.

Didn’t that book go on sale last night at midnight? The Gay Book Of Stupid Arguments? Wait, no….my bad.

Nightmare - I’m sorry, you’re right. I think I just meant to say I was wondering that THAT guy would show up.

[...] J, I really feel bad for you. You are a sick, sick person who needs help. You have proven, like so many before you that homosexuality is a disease of the mind that needs to be treated like any other mental condition. You are reading from the Gay Book of Stupid Arguments, word for word, which means that they have successfully brain washed you into thinking you deserve special treatment because you are gay. [...]

[...] …I really feel bad for you. You are a sick, sick person who needs help. You have proven, like so many before you that homosexuality is a disease of the mind that needs to be treated like any other mental condition. You are reading from the Gay Book of Stupid Arguments, word for word, which means that they have successfully brain washed you into thinking you deserve special treatment because you are gay. [...]

I’m sorry you’ve been attacked the way you have been. Just know that we know you’re right

Othurme - I’m bummed. Nightmare stole my comment. Though it would mean something totally different coming from me.

Nightmare - You’re right. See also: the William Anderson and Wayne Cooper posts.

MikeM - Right… as opposed to that special book that you’re reading from written by that imaginary white-robed all-loving man on a golden throne in the sky. Smarter people than you have been here trying to argue your same point of view and failed miserably too. I suggest you return to your wife-abusing, slave-owning, pork-and-shellfish-avoiding ivory white tower where life is always beautiful and full of magic and fantasy.

Othurme - I think I’ve figured out my next writing project.

diamondfistwerny - Thank you, but actually, this is quite tame compared to some of the other attacks that have happened here. I figure by Monday the fundies will make their way here to try to tell me once again how anal sex is unnatural and my mortal soul is in danger.

[...] So GaySongs That Make Me Insanely Happy - The Top 5Caption MeCommenter AppreciationThat’s So Gay RevisitedCommon CourtesyA First for this BlogIt Has Come To My Attention…Cat HaikuWhat do these people have [...]

Notice the name, of my site. This has become me, to take the power away from anyone who might try to use words, to hurt me. I can choose to take offense, when called something. Or I can choose to take that power from them, by flipping the script and wearing that Bitch like Prada.My best friend, in the entire world, my son, is gay. As well, I am Bi and make no apologies. I’m an ol’ Fag Hag, from back when it wasn’t even a word or phrase and have defended gays, my whole life, not just with words or action but locked and loaded and almost went to jail for it, more than once.
Enough about me though, this is about you and the need to defend yourself. I can see your reasoning. It’s like, me calling you a nigga, if you’re Black. It’s ok within your own but you feel they don’t have the right or have not earned it.
If you choose to take offense, if you look for the offense, you will find it. You must not allow it to own you, which you have. You must own it, wear it like Jimmy Choo shooz.
At Ask Aunt Babz I am all about, people realizing that you must take back your power and not choose to take offense. You have now armed those, who would choose to hurt you. Let it roll off your back. It’s all about choices, not the fight. Now you’ve exposed your soft pink underbelly, where it hurts you the most.
The reference is not about you, now is it? Are you lame? I’ve been called white trash before, why does that not hurt? Because it’s a generality and it’s not me. Just as in the Gay world, you have men that behave badly and give the Gay name, it’s black eye, you are not them, are you? Right now, you are wearing a black eye, a punch that was not meant for you. Put some cover up on that, Mary and never let ‘em see you cry.

MikeM,
Gay is not a choice. It is predisposition/DNA, the way you are hardwired. You can choose not to act on it and stay in the closet, never being true to yourself, never being happy/gay? Gay men and women, lead an awful life, if they feel the oppression to stay in that closet because of people like yourself.Do you choose to be Hetero? No, it is your predisposition and just as it seems natural to you, to have that attraction, to the opposite sex, it is exactly the same, for someone, who is Gay
You have proven that you do not have an educated opinion, on the subject, you have proven that it is people, like yourself, that are the imminent danger, in our society.

“Gay is not a choice on a job application, or loan application.”

No, but it is a valid and legal reason to fire someone in more than half of the states. BTW, race isn’t supposed to be a consideration for hiring/firing AT ALL.

We’ve stricken down the laws that say who black people can and cannot marry, while trying to craft ones to do just that for homosexuals.

I’d say the comparison to racial and gender discrimination is apt. In fact, that’s more data than I actually need because obviously, bigotry is bigotry, plain and simple.

I always find it both hilarious and pathetic when an obvious bigot pretends not to be, and then tries to blame the appearance of such on the hypersensitivity of the victim. You’re a bigot, MikeM. Just being a realist here.

Joe’s got a point there. There used to be a time when I wouldn’t have been able to marry my daughter’s father. Not too long as a matter of fact. Blacks were considered inferior and mentally sub par.

Using “gay” to describe anything derogatory, inferior, or “lame” isn’t the same as “gay used to mean happy and joyous” (happy and joyous being something pleasurable and desirable). As more people follow the links and leave comments like Mike’s it’ll become more apparent why using “that’s so gay” isn’t at all innocent and why taking back the power of a word just doesn’t work like that.

Dirty Bitch Society - Thanks for visiting! If I’ve shown any “underbelly,” it’s that homophobic remarks made by someone that I respect or genuinely like are able to pierce the thick skin I’ve developed from years of having insults slung my direction.

I do not feel owned by my offense. I am emboldened and vindicated to discover that my original reading of the offensive remarks as being offensive, was correct. Subsequent comments and posts have revealed the true nature of that particular community’s beliefs.

Read my original post again. I talked about the dangers of the use of that word. That post was MOSTLY about teens and pre-teens using the term and how discouraging that was to me.

Dawn took that post as an opportunity to reveal her true opinions and attempt to excuse them as her lackluster attempts at humor.

Dirty Bitch Society - Well said. I’m sure that it will go in one ear and out the other, as there seems to be nothing in between to capture it.

Joe the Troll - Thanks for stopping by, and thank you for “getting it.” Unfortunately, I’m afraid that Dawn has become one of the latter people you describe. Her site has become a festering pot of anti-gay, disrespectful sentiment. That makes me sad.

JennytheJinx - I’m just waiting for the flood of bigots making their way here when everyone returns to work on Monday. I have to say I’m quite amazed at the relative lack of them that have appeared thus far.

Good for you, Jester, in remaining classy throughout this kerfuffle (I will repost my explanation of the word, just for you). Also, your blog design totally rocks! I’m glad I “met” you, even if it was due to this unfortunate event.

MikeM said: Sexuality is something you need to keep to yourself anyway. I don’t care if you are gay, bi or straight. Keep it to yourself and the nay-sayers won’t have anything to say. You are giving people a reason do dislike you.

So when I, a hetero woman, walk down the street holding some guy’s hand, that means it’s okay for a gay person to not only dislike me, but come up and call me names, or try to kill me? Because most often, that’s what happens when gay couples walk together. The gay-haters use that as an excuse to beat them up.

It’s fine for heteros to NOT keep our sexuality to ourselves. We can snog in public parks and everyone smiles. But gay people can’t even say “I am offended when someone uses a pejorative phrase” because then they’re perpetuating the dislike.

Really classy, MikeM.

Whoops! Reading some more from MikeM, it’s clear he’s not someone who actually bothers to think. My bad for reasoning with him.

Mike - Ignorance is bliss. But after a look at your blog, I really don’t think you can call it ignorance. You have support on there for cancer and ginger children. Do you honestly think that being gay is a choice? We have as much a choice about loving the same sex as you do about loving the opposite sex. You are the jack ass that follows
Fred Phelps and will throw a bible in my face at my brothers military funeral and say that we should both burn in hell. Although I don’t have time for a blog or my own website because I’m too busy making a difference in the world (sorry Jester, not personal), if I did have one…it would say…
SUCK MY DICK!

Jester,
I’m sure they’ll flood like a leaking sewer pipe. Sad to say that kind of shit is uber predictable. But it’s all in fun, right? Heh.

*psst..It’s Jennyjinx or JJ or just Jenny. Though my husband says I’m a jinx of the highest order.:)*

Miz UV - Yeah, that might be the only time I’ve ever been described as “classy.” Not because I’m offensive to others, but usually because I’ve done something that most people would consider to be embarrassing. Thanks for the compliments, I did the design myself.:) I look forward to reading your explanation of kerfuffle.

Gekko - well, yeah, because God says holding hands and making out with the opposite sex is normal. Anything else is just dirty and nasty and shameful, didn’t you know that?? I’m wondering what God has to say about the use of “gay” in place of “lame.” No sense in waging a battle of wits with the unarmed.

Toby - No offense taken. I’m glad you’re out saving the world, cause I’m just too tired to do it myself. I need to delegate those types of tasks. I see that you’re taking advantage of the fact that I don’t police the right of my commenters to call an asshole an asshole.
Jennyjinx - Sorry about the moniker-butchering. I’m battening down the hatches for tomorrow’s explosion of the proselytizers and the brain trust of the Wingnut Brigade.

Wow!
This is some turnout…it all started nicely enough but then the real wackos showed up. Somewhere out there a few of these guys are rubbing one out to the thought of really telling that gay guy how it is.

I also enjoyed the argument, “…you can argue that it’s not, but that comes from the same book as every other argument gays use to support their condition.”
That is such a shitty anti-discussion cop out. A last ditch effort to pull out of a losing argument.

Sorry I am so late to the party.

Killer - Yeah, no kidding, where the hell have you been? Is that book you’re referencing “The Gay Book of Stupid Arguments” that was referenced earlier? I’m on the waiting list for it at the library. Figure I’d better read it.

Seems to me that Dawn has become your punching bag for all your pent up frustration. It’s scary how you’re taking umbrage at a truly offhand remark. As a reader of her blog it seems to me that her blog is generally easygoing and she doesn’t censor herself just so as to appear politically correct. Many people who discriminate against gays do so discreetly and vehemently where it matters, like when they vote or hire or fire someone. Singling out one blogger who uses a term that is pretty common doesn’t help your cause. I truly don’t think that you should equate the gay cause to the struggle that African Americans experienced in the US. Many people are discriminated against and have found themselves being denied chances at jobs, relationships and whatnot (Fat women, short men, people with lazy eyes/ harelips/ lisps/ body odour, the list goes on).

Sally - did you read everything going on here? It doesn’t seem like it. If you read the original post and the discussion thereafter, you’d see that no one singled out Dawn. Dawn outed herself.

The original posts excuses her for making an offhanded remark, and only asks that she consider what she says before making it again. Why is that so bad? Is she not able to control what comes out of her mouth/keyboard?

I don’t think anyone equated the gay cause to the struggle of African-Americans. They certainly were compared and there are plenty of areas where they are similar. Both are certainly victims of discrimination and bigotry.

Did anyone here dismiss discrimination against fat people, short people, lisps, or what not? Nope. Discrimination there is just as bad.

Sally - How are “gayest band ever,” “[we don't want to be a] GAY BAND,” and “[that would make us] a bunch of FAG HAGS” truly offhand remarks?

I never said the gay cause was the SAME as the racial struggles in this country, I said they were SIMILAR and they are.

Othurme - I’m so glad you get it.

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Nightmare said
I remember when GAY used to mean happy. Why is it that the Homosexuals get to usurp words and symbols and make them their own and when we use one that isn’t “correct” in their eyes, they get all pissy and try and make us feel like we’re lower class citizens?

I remember when “special” was unrelated to a short bus, Olympic Games where all participants get medals regardless of ability or whether or not they can actually perform a given sport and when it didn’t mean education for low IQ- I don’t read people clamouring to take back the word SPECIAL. BOO HOO HOO Nightmare. You are a lower class of citizen if you react in ignorance about something which you can get information on.
Our collective culture is responsible for hijacking language, reassigning word meanings and creating neologisms- the GAYS did not lable themselves gay, we just ran with a name we’d been given. I think it’s rather enlightening bigots show up in droves to voice their disdain in total ignorance and almost always feel “vicitmized.” How TELL-TALE.

queertardo - Well said. I’m also amused by the white male majority who screams about our “infringement on their rights” as if they have any idea what having their rights infringed upon is really like.

What really amazes me is that people (in general) don’t have any idea of what a gay person goes through. There was a comment made earlier (you may have to look really closely because I’m not sure which post it was on) that said that it wasn’t long ago that interracial marriages were illegal. It’s usually those same people that still think that they should be illegal that continue to run their mouths about issues they have absolutely no experience with. So what…your brother/sister/son/daughter/dog/cat gay…how does that affect the job YOU were